"I'm going for 1st says Cleland" 😀 Supertouring era BTCC rocked.
Back slightly on topic I couldn't understand why Merc took an engine swap rather than let VB defend further up the field in a better position to score points anyway TBH
I couldn’t understand why Merc took an engine swap rather than let VB defend further up the field in a better position to score points anyway
Maybe Bottas' engine really did have a problem and it wasn't a cunning plan to mess up Verstappen. As George Carlin said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
We did the GB rally for years, some fantastic memories.
Absolute balls out driving. Nothing more exhilarating than walking along a quiet forest stage and seconds later scrambling for safety as a car comes through completely sideways at 100mph+.
Completely stolen from twitter
WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS BY 2030:
Lewis Hamilton =
Max Verstappen =
Charles Leclerc =
Lando Norris =
George Russell =
Daniel Ricciardo =
Carlos Sainz =
Here is mine
Lewis Hamilton = 9
Max Verstappen = 3
Charles Leclerc = 1
Lando Norris = 0
George Russell = 2
Daniel Ricciardo = 0
Carlos Sainz = 0
Pierre Gasly = 1
Would be more interesting if you put which team you thought those drivers would have won them with.
Mine.
Lewis Hamilton = 8 Merc
Max Verstappen = 2 RB
Charles Leclerc = 1 Ferrari
Lando Norris = 1 Merc
George Russell = 1 x Merc, 1 x McLaren
Daniel Ricciardo = 0
Carlos Sainz = 0
Would be more interesting if you put which team you thought those drivers would have won them with.
Good point
Lewis Hamilton = 9 Merc
Max Verstappen = 3 RB
Charles Leclerc = 1 Ferr
Lando Norris = 0
George Russell = 2 Merc
Daniel Ricciardo = 0
Carlos Sainz = 0
Pierre Gasly = 1 Ferr
Can't see Hamilton winning another championship, although I do like to see records being broken in sport.
I can't be arsed making random guesses about years in the future. I think it's better to look at how well resourced the teams are to get some idea of who will do well under the new regs and then look at how their current drivers compare. I think five teams currently have the resources to potentially challenge for championships in the next few years: Merc, Red Bull, Ferrari, Renault, and McLaren. I think the others will take several years before they can even get to McLaren's level, let alone Merc.
Merc and Red Bull are extremely well resourced, with top class aero departments and simulation. Their engines seem to be very equal, but Merc will probably bring an upgrade for next year, whereas Honda have probably introduced everything they have. I think those two teams have to be considered joint favorites for the next few years. I'm going to say 2/3 chance that one of those teams will win for each of the next few years, so 33% chance each.
Including this year, that would give Verstappen about an 85% chance of at least one championship by the end of 2024, assuming he isn't challenged by a teammate.
Hamilton will probably retire at the end of 2023 and will have a very fast young teammate, I'll rate them as equal, so Hamilton has a 50% chance of a title this year and 17% for the next two years. That gives Hamilton about 65% chance of another title before he retires, including this year.
Russell should have a decent advantage over whoever replaces Hamilton for the first year of their pairing. That gives him roughly a 50% chance of a title by the end of 2024.
Ferrari have excellent facilities but management issues have left them a long way behind and their engine is weak. Next year's engine will be improved, but it's hard to see it getting ahead of the Merc engine. Renault are in a similar situation. McLaren have an excellent engine but it will take several years for their new windtunnel and simulator to come online. I'll rate those three teams as equal, so an 11% chance of winning a title. All three have strong driver pairings. It's impossible to know how the drivers will adapt to the new cars, so I'll just rate them all as equal pairings. That would give each of those drivers about a 15% chance of winning a championship by 2024, assuming Alonso doesn't retire, in which case Ocon's odds would improve a lot.
So, odds of winning at least one championship between now and the end of 2024:
Verstappen 85%
Hamilton 65%
Russell 50%
The Ferrari, McLaren, and Renault drivers 15% each.
I can’t be arsed providing a short answer so I'll give a really long one instead
😀 😀
Can't really argue with any of it though. Despite the regulation changes its hard to see past Merc or Red Bull for the next few years.
Although both Merc and RB are ahead because their MGU-H systems work really well, and those are going away soon with new rule changes, so you have to factor in that as well (due in 2026)
And the possibility of one of the VAG brands joining in. Could be fun times ahead
And the possibility of one of the VAG brands joining in. Could be fun times ahead
If they join as a brand new manufacturer then happy days - I'm more inclined to think they'll just take over the engines from Red Bull in a rebadging exercise. So we'll still have the same number of engine suppliers. Honda may have some intellectual rights clauses though.
If they join as a brand new manufacturer then happy days – I’m more inclined to think they’ll just take over the engines from Red Bull in a rebadging exercise.
They won't join until the new engine regulations take effect. The current engines will be scrapped and everyone will have to start again from a clean sheet of paper. Honda own the IP to the current Red Bull engine so Red Bull can't just hand that over to someone else. On top of that, VW and Porsche aren't going to pay someone else to build engines for them, they will want to do it in-house.
andrewh
Free Member
This is how you do it Valteri https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QI8litf5a2s
This is amazing!!
On top of that, VW and Porsche aren’t going to pay someone else to build engines for them, they will want to do it in-house.
Mercedes paid Ilmor to build their engines for many years, then bought the company!
I can easily see Red Bull trying to palm their newly acquired engine division off to VAG.
I can easily see Red Bull trying to palm their newly acquired engine division off to VAG.
If Honda have any sense they've already precluded that as part of the deal to allow RBR to continue to use their designs.
I can easily see Red Bull trying to palm their newly acquired engine division off to VAG.
VW sell about 10 million cars per year and make about $1000 profit per vehicle, so about $10 billion in profit. Their profit is about twice what Red Bull does in turnover, but Red Bull's product is basically caffeinated sugar water, so most of their costs are marketing and they are incredibly profitable. However, they have the best aerodynamics department in F1. VW don't need a Red Bull engine, they have the resources and engineers to build engines, the only thing Red Bull have is Adrian Newey and a first-class aero department.
Qatar own quite a bit of VW shares as well, and they've just signed a deal for what, 10 years of racing? I'd imagine a favourable change of engine spec was part of the negotiation.
If this teaser is anything to go by, Red Bull’s livery this weekend is going to look TASTY 🤩
Bit underwhelming, as expected really. Would've been much cooler if they'd removed the sponsors logos that they could (ie the Red Bull ones)
OTOH, good illustration of rake in that photo
I think it looks great
If it's meant to mimic the Honda F1 cars of the 60's they missed the net by a mile and kicked the ball into row Z! 🙂
Just looks messy.
retro83
Free MemberI think it looks great
On its own it's fine, but as a homage to the really simple old Honda livery?
From the front it looks like they tried to copy the Marlboro scheme from McLaren but with Red Bull logos and it looks horrible.
McLaren showed how it should be done when they ran the Gulf livery earlier this year. Maybe RedBull's will look better on TV but I can't see many people saying they'd like them to run it again.
On its own it’s fine, but as a homage to the really simple old Honda livery?
Yeah, basically that—had hoped it would be a bit more minimalist. Even just getting rid of the yellow and reducing the size of the text on the side pods would have gone a long way.
Just looks messy.
Yep.
Doesn't make me think fondly of anything in F1's past, as I suspect it was supposed to
The white, red and yellow combination makes my teeth itch. It's a no from me.
I do hope that we'll see that Monaco Gulf McLaren livery again very soon though.
Just looks messy.
I think all modern F1 cars look messy.
Some go beyond messy, I don't have words to describe this.
thepurist
Full MemberMcLaren showed how it should be done when they ran the Gulf livery earlier this year
See, maybe it was just my TV settings, but I thought that looked crap on TV. The blue just looked white/light grey most of the time.
Good in photos though.
edit, i just checked the yt vid of it, and it's the same on there. Probably just because it was so sunny on the day
[img] 
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Maybe it was just my TV settings, but I thought that looked crap on TV. The blue just looked light grey.
Ever since F1 was first televised it's proved difficult to make a livery stand out on the screen. Malboro era McLarens aren't red and white in the metal - the red is actually dayglo orange. Jaguar's F1 cars were unexpectedly lurid and Jordan's yellow was eye-hurtingly florescent.
PJM1974
Ever since F1 was first televised it’s proved difficult to make a livery stand out on the screen. Malboro era McLarens aren’t red and white in the metal – the red is actually dayglo orange. Jaguar’s F1 cars were unexpectedly lurid and Jordan’s yellow was eye-hurtingly florescent.
Yeah, mclaren still had that bright orange paint when I went to see them in 2009 ish, it looked absolutely brilliant in person.
I think the Aston paint is a big shame, half the time it just looks black on TV.
Anyway re mclaren's Gulf livery, i just think if they'd used a tone closer to
[img] 
[/img]
rather than
[img] 
[/img]
it would have looked better on TV
So, Honda are going to withdraw as an engine constructor, but develop the engine to adapt it to the new fuel for next year, and also keep making them for Red Bull to use, but not call it a Honda engine? I'm confused.
Honda pulled all of the funding for petrol cars to focus on alternatives.
I assume they have funding to understand synthetic fuels and how they work but not enough for a full programme, so it will just be partial funding of the engines.
New ICE for Hammy, so looking like a 10 place grid drop. Sainz is taking a full power unit, so guess he'll be starting from the back.
ICE
In Car Entertainment?
Can he not just do without his tunes for a couple of hours?! Jeez!
Do they even have room for a 10-disc autochanger?
I bet Toto is fuming!
So, Honda are going to withdraw as an engine constructor, but develop the engine to adapt it to the new fuel for next year, and also keep making them for Red Bull to use, but not call it a Honda engine? I’m confused.
I think it boils down to Honda will help with the transition but Red Bull will provide the $$$ 💵💵💵
Seems like a wise move from Merc. New oily bits only mean a 10 place drop, they can make that up on the right track. You’d have to be pretty daft to bet against a podium for Lewis even with that grid drop, which will mean relatively few points lost against Crashtappen even if he wins.
Could be a wet qualifying and race too.
They just need Bottas to hold him up long enough for Hamilton to catch him.
Oh....